Теократический Монархист (ign) wrote,
Теократический Монархист
ign

Несколько мнений

Леонид Радзиховский вчера на "Эхе Москвы" :

С.БУНТМАН: Вот к чему мы пришли в самом начале 2009 г. с мировым кризисом, с диким конфликтом снова на Ближнем Востоке, с дичайшим и бесперспективным, как мне кажется, на многие годы. О нем несколько слов?

Л.РАДЗИХОВСКИЙ: Я не считаю, что он бесперспективный. Понимаешь, Сереж, это ведь штука такая - когда говорят: зачем Израиль их бомбит? Ну, убьют, на место одного убитого станут сто других. Зачем ты ногти стрижешь? Ну, острижешь - опять отрастут. Зачем ты волосы стрижешь? Зачем работает вообще милиция? Ну, посадят, на месте одного посаженного два других появляются - таскать вам не перетаскать. Окончательного решения проблем вообще не существует. 20-й век показал, что не существует даже окончательного решения еврейского вопроса, что уж говорить об окончательном решении любых других вопросов? Есть временные решения: дадут по рогам, немножко успокоят, отобьют на какое-то время охоту, поживут нормально, через какое-то время товарищи опять перевозбудятся, опять полезут - опять по рогам получат, опять их немножко успокоят. Так и живут. Проблема, думаю, тут… ну, во-первых, проблемы вообще нет. Палестина, Сектор Газа, объявил войну Израилю. Объявил в той форме, что Палестина прекратила, Сектор Газа прекратил перемирие. Прекращение перемирия означает объявление войны. Ну, война и пошла - что вы хотите? Говорят, что война не на равных - а вы как хотели? Чтобы евреи посылали своих убивать ножами, взрывать дискотеки? Каждый дерется тем оружием, которое у него есть. Арабы посылают террористов убивать ножами и с поясами шахидов, евреи бомбы сбрасывают, - у каждого свое. Так вообще войны вести нельзя. Оба должны разоружиться до одного состояния, так? Причем, до состояния слабейшего. Зачем Россия воевала с Грузией так, как она воевала? Надо было довести Российскую армию до уровня Грузинской армии, и тогда, в честном бою, - а не так, с преимуществом 20:1. Зачем Россия воевала в Чечне так, как она воевала? Надо было создать банды террористов. Вот вам банда Басаева, а против нее - банда какого-нибудь Петрова. И так выяснять отношения, по-честному.

(В скобках замечу, что хотя я нечасто соглашаюсь с Радзиховским, в данном случае его мнение удивительно совпало с моим, которое я высказал за несколько дней до этого в дискуссии с Владимиром Миловым здесь)

За день до него, Максим Шевченко (обсуждение здесь):

М. ШЕВЧЕНКО: [...] Напомню, что Газа, подобно блокадному Ленинграду, 900 дней до начала этих массированных бомбардировок, держалась в полной блокаде. И в неё только прорывались кораблики с Кипра, которые проводили энтузиасты, англичане этим занимались.[...]

в Газе огромные потери, 400 убитых, 64 ребёнка из них убиты. Газа отстреливается этими обломками труб, которые называются ракетами, которые не наносят ни малейшего вреда, разве только асфальт треплет. А Газу в ответ бомбят тоновыми бомбами. Это, конечно, беспрецедентная история. Израиль начал эти действия, я уж не знаю, случайно или специально, в день памяти резни Вифлеемских младенцев, которые убивались по приказу царя Ирода, когда охранники Ирода искали Христа.[...]

Я понимаю, что сейчас мне, судя по форума «Эха Москвы», для большинства радиослушателей и зрителей RTVi, защищать Хамас тоже самое, как для радиослушателей «Дойче Рундшау» в 1943 году оправдывать действия белорусских партизан, говорить, что они не террористы-убийцы, а те, кто сражается с немецкой оккупационной армией.[...]

О. БЫЧКОВА: Но, тем не менее, прошлый год в Израиле был посвящён этому тяжёлому осмыслению необходимости создания палестинского государства. И необходимостью поступиться какими-то своими прежними завоеваниями.

М. ШЕВЧЕНКО: Прямо от себя оторвали. Эти выходцы из Новосибирска, Воронежа, Москвы, Ленинграда, которые в изобилии туда приехали, прямо своё кровное отдали людям, которые там живут тысячелетиями. Кто они такие вообще, чтобы судиться с палестинцами?


Алла Никонова, Left.RU :

... На самом деле Сдерот и все прочие города, в которых у и.е. «дрожали кишки» - палестинские населенные пункты, которые были переименованы или построены на палестинской земле на месте уничтоженных сионистами. Их палестинские жители были убиты или изгнаны, в том числе в Газу, где их заперли, как в огромный концлагерь, а точнее, в гетто, на милость и.е. Ашкелон, например, был раньше Мадждалом, и палестинцы были оттуда «вычищены» к 1950 году. Уже шестьдесят лет они живут на клочке земли площадью в 360 км2, и и.е. иногда убивают их массово сверху, а иногда понемножку – голодом и отсутствием самого необходимого, а иногда дают им немножко вздохнуть, чтобы потом снова обрушится на них в полную силу за неблагодарность.

Неблагодарность эта заключается в том, что жители Газы не желают очистить место для расы господ – и.е., или хотя бы сидеть смирно, тихо помирать и даже не мечтать о возвращении своей земли и свободы. Разумеется, и.е. вам тут же объяснят, что они ни в коем случае не против палестинцев как таковых – только против Хамас. Если бы не Хамас, палестинцы были бы счастливы сидеть в своей клетке, куда и.е. иногда бросали бы немного еды, и все были бы довольны. Поэтому и.е. бомбят и морят голодом исключительно Хамас, а если при этом погибают палестинские младенцы – виноват опять Хамас.

Все, это, разумеется, наглое вранье. Когда евреи начали колонизировать Палестину более ста лет назад, никакого Хамас не было. Его не существовало и в 1948 году, когда нынешние жители Газы были изгнаны из родных домов. Хамас не было и в помине в 1967 году, когда и.е. захватили Газу. И все это время сионисты-колонисты, а затем и.е. не меняли своего отношения к палестинцам как к помехе для своих планов. С появлением Хамас ничего не изменилось. Точно такова же история агрессии и.е. против Ливана, задолго до появления Хизбаллы.


Переходим теперь к англоязычному миру. Alan Dershowitz, Wall Street Journal:

Israel's actions in Gaza are justified under international law, and Israel should be commended for its self-defense against terrorism. Article 51 of the United Nations Charter reserves to every nation the right to engage in self-defense against armed attacks. The only limitation international law places on a democracy is that its actions must satisfy the principle of proportionality.[...]

The claim that Israel has violated the principle of proportionality -- by killing more Hamas terrorists than the number of Israeli civilians killed by Hamas rockets -- is absurd. First, there is no legal equivalence between the deliberate killing of innocent civilians and the deliberate killings of Hamas combatants. Under the laws of war, any number of combatants can be killed to prevent the killing of even one innocent civilian.

Second, proportionality is not measured by the number of civilians actually killed, but rather by the risk posed. This is illustrated by what happened on Tuesday, when a Hamas rocket hit a kindergarten in Beer Sheva, though no students were there at the time. Under international law, Israel is not required to allow Hamas to play Russian roulette with its children's lives.


Наконец, воспользуемся здесь в готовом виде подборкой ссылок из блога израильского консульства в Нью-Йорке israelpolitik :

  • Moral Clarity in Gaza - Charles Krauthammer
    Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not. It possesses a moral clarity not only rare but excruciating. Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Today in Gaza, one combatant is committed to causing the most civilian pain and suffering on both sides. The other combatant is committed to saving as many lives as possible - also on both sides.
    Israel has but a single objective in Gaza - peace: the calm, open, normal relations it offered Gaza when it withdrew in 2005. Doing something never done by Turkish, British, Egyptian and Jordanian rulers, the Israelis gave the Palestinians their first sovereign territory ever in Gaza. Gaza’s Iranian-sponsored rulers turned it into a terror base - firing rockets unceasingly. Since Hamas’ raison d’etre is the eradication of Israel, there are only two possible outcomes: the defeat of Hamas or the extinction of Israel. (Washington Post)

  • Defining Victory for Israel - Michael Gerson
    There is no question - none - that Israel’s attack on Hamas in Gaza is justified. No nation can tolerate a portion of its people living in the conditions of the London Blitz - sleeping in bomb shelters and separated from death only by the randomness of a Kassam missile’s flight. And no group aspiring to nationhood, such as Hamas, can be exempt from the rules of morality and civilization, which forbid routine murder attempts against your neighbors.
    Israel’s response has been criticized as “disproportionate,” which betrays a misunderstanding of proportion’s meaning. The goal of military action, when unavoidable, is not to take one life in exchange for each one unjustly taken; this is mere vengeance. The goal is to remove the conditions that lead to conflict and the taking of life. So far, Israel’s actions have been proportionate to this objective.
    The Israeli public will not accept any further risks for peace as long as Hamas missiles fly. Those missiles are a daily symbol that Israeli territorial concessions result in the strengthening of committed enemies and the death of Israeli citizens. The removal of this threat is not an obstacle to the peace process. It is the prerequisite for the resumption of the peace process. America, in turn, faces a test of its moral judgment. This conflict is not a contest between shades of gray. It is a matter of distinguishing between murderers and victims - and of supporting an ally until a clear victory against terrorism is achieved. (Washington Post)

  • Hamas Is a Taliban State - Martin Peretz
    It is clearer in my mind than ever why a cease-fire between Jerusalem and the regime in Gaza will never hold. Even during the so-called cease-fire in place since the summer, day-in and almost every day-out, rockets were launched from Hamas territory, and Israel did not fight back. How long was Israel to stand aside while its enemies, sworn by fanatic Islam to its destruction, rained death, injury, and terror on its population?
    A cease-fire can sometimes be had between civilized governments. But why isn’t anyone pressing the U.S. in Afghanistan into a cease-fire with the Taliban? A stupid question. Because the enemy is the Taliban. The fact is that Hamas is a Taliban state. Go ahead, establish a cease-fire with one of them. America before Israel. A cease-fire with Hamas is a delusion. Engage with whom? (New Republic)

  • More Peace Processing Won’t Cut It - Claudia Rosett
    Today, as Israel tries to defend itself by force of arms against enemies dedicated to its destruction, the ritual call is for peace processes for our time. That might be fine, were Israel’s attackers in Gaza just a solo street gang of malcontents. Yet since its founding in 1987 as an offshoot of the Palestinian branch of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas has drawn support from a global network. Most prominent and dangerous among Hamas supporters is Iran - an important source of funding, training and munitions. Start following the Iranian connections and it quickly becomes clear that Gaza is just one part of a larger web that we might once have called an axis - of evil, of tyranny, of totalitarian ideology. (Forbes)

  • The Palestinians Share Responsibility for This Conflict - Carlo Strenger
    I have been a very outspoken critic of Israeli policies for many years. Nevertheless, far from being only victims, Palestinians have made many active decisions that have shaped their fate and are co-responsible for the current situation. I am impatiently waiting for the moment in which there will be a Palestinian state and in which no Palestinian child will have to see an Israeli soldier in his or her lifetime. But the Palestinian decision-making process is making this very difficult, if not impossible.
    Politically correct moralists who let Palestinians off the hook and turn Israel into the sole culprit are making a huge mistake. It is high time that Palestinians begin to face their responsibility for their fate. Sacrificing their sons either as Shahids through suicide bombings or as targets behind which Hamas hides its arsenals of explosives in population centers is the perfect recipe for traumatizing or killing another generation of Palestinian children. (Guardian-UK)

  • Fighting Under the Gaza Rules - Victor Davis Hanson
    According to the Gaza rules, both sides always deserve equal blame. World opinion vehemently condemns Israel’s countermeasures, apparently because its rockets are far more accurate and deadly than previous Hamas barrages. If America had accepted such rules in World War II, then by late 1944 we, not the Axis, would have been the culpable party, since by then once-aggressive German, Italian and Japanese forces were increasingly on the defensive and far less lethal than the Allies.
    Killing Palestinian civilians is incidental to Israeli military operations and proves counterproductive to its objectives. Blowing up Israeli non-combatants is the aim of Hamas’ barrages. By this logic, the 1999 American bombing of Belgrade - aimed at stopping the genocide of Slobodan Milosevic - was, because of collateral damage, the moral equivalent of the carefully planned Serbian massacres of Muslim civilians at Srebrenica in 1995.
    Hamas daily sends barrages into Israel, as its hooded thugs thump their chests and brag of their radical Islamic militancy. But when the payback comes, suddenly warriors are transmogrified into weeping victims, posing teary-eyed for the news camera as they deplore “genocide” and “the Palestinian Holocaust.” (Salt Lake Tribune)

  • Gaza Should Be World’s Problem, Not Israel’s - Mark Lavie
    Look at your ceiling now. Can it stop a rocket? That’s what Israelis are asking. It puzzles Israelis when the world comes down on them hard for what they see as pure self-defense. But it does come down on them, every time. The mitigating factor this time is that most of the world despises Hamas even more than it holds Israel to impossible standards.
    Tens of thousands of civilians have been killed in operations by U.S. forces and their allies in Iraq. Thousands of civilians have died in Afghanistan in coalition air raids aimed at Taliban and al-Qaeda. No one cheers when it happens, but civilian casualties are not the focus of criticism of those wars. Unless the overall equation is changed, unless something is done to make Gaza livable and not a crucible of extremism, this is just going to happen again. The writer is an Associated Press correspondent who has covered the Mideast since 1972. (Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette)

  • Hamas Is the Obstacle to Middle East Peace - Ron Prosor
    The tactics and ideology of Hamas and its backers are the foremost obstacle to Middle East peace. For too long, Hamas has held progress to ransom, choosing war over peace, destruction over development. Israel’s objective is to take the initiative away from Hamas. The pragmatic moderates of all sides need a new reality from which to find a diplomatic solution. Unless we weaken Hamas, the moderates cannot succeed. The international community, Israel and the pragmatic leadership of the Arab world must stand up to the extremism that threatens us all. The writer is Israel’s Ambassador to the UK. (Telegraph-UK)Editorials on the Gaza Conflict

  • Peace in Gaza Is in the Hands of Hamas - Editorial
    The Israel Defense Forces have been condemned around the world for a disproportionate use of force in Gaza, though it must be remembered that 8,000 rockets have been fired at their territory in recent years. Ron Prosor, the Israeli ambassador to London, asked what we would do if our sovereign territory were under daily attack. It is a good question; the answer must be that we would seek to protect our people. As long as Hamas refuses to contemplate a two-state solution, there is little chance of peace. (Telegraph-UK)

  • Hamas Terrorists Have Only Themselves to Blame for Israeli Retaliation - Editorial
    There is terrible guilt to be ascribed in the Israeli raids on Gaza - and it falls squarely and solely on the shoulders of the death-to-Israel fanatics of Hamas. It was rocket-firing, suicide-bombing Hamas that broke a six-month-long truce by raining missiles down on southern Israel, necessitating a stern - and remarkably precise - military response. There is no doubt civilians are among the dead or wounded. And there is guilt for that carnage. It belongs to Hamas, which has woven terrorism into the very fabric of life in the Gaza Strip, placing mortar-firing militants side-by-side with children and exposing them to the risk of harm by a country forced to defend its own people. (New York Daily News)

  • Israel’s Gaza Defense - Editorial
    The more successful Israel is in damaging Hamas as a terrorist force, the better chance Mr. Obama will have to make progress in facilitating a genuine Mideast peace. Mr. Obama is about to discover that the terrorists of the Middle East aren’t about to change their radical ambitions merely because America has a new president. (Wall Street Journal)

  • The Blood on Hamas’ Hands - Editorial
    Let’s keep straight whose fault this tragedy is: Hamas, the fanatical Islamists who rule Gaza. Yes, the Israelis have inflicted far more casualties on the Gazans than the Gazans have on them, but that is because Hamas deliberately and evilly locates its military resources among civilians, cynically hoping for a propaganda victory. There can be no peace as long as Hamas is a player. (Dallas Morning News)

  • Daily Rocket Attacks by Hamas Invited Israeli Military Response - Editorial
    Israel is fulfilling the most elementary obligation of any government: to protect the lives of its people. This was the reason for the founding of the Jewish state in the first place. Hamas was founded not to win independence for the Palestinian people but to destroy Israel. Palestinians have a legitimate right to pursue the creation of an independent state, but not to seek the destruction of another country. Any outcome that is perceived as a victory for Hamas would be a victory for terrorism. (Miami Herald)

  • Hammering Hamas - Editorial
    Israel needs the support of decent people everywhere. (New York Post)

  • Hamas Fantasy Rules - Editorial
    Hamas is never going to change its belief that it has a God-given mission to destroy Israel, and the capacity to do so. The truce Hamas offered was an opportunity to stockpile weapons and undergo training. Hamas interpreted Israeli restraint as evidence that Israel was unable to defend its sovereignty and was therefore actually on the path to defeat and national dissolution.
    An essential factor in this tragic situation is the readiness of Arabs and Muslims everywhere to take the Hamas fantasy for reality. In Cairo, Damascus, or Tehran, many evidently think it right and proper and normal for Hamas to keep up a barrage of missiles and rockets while Israelis are supposed to accept the punishment, while measures of self-defense on the part of Israel are to be considered criminal. (National Review)

  • Hamas Has Invited Its Own Destruction - Editorial
    Calls on Israel to immediately cease its pounding of Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip are misdirected. Hamas’ rockets are growing in range and sophistication, and soon will be able to strike targets deep inside Israel. That’s intolerable. (Detroit News)

  • Israel Finally Says: Enough - Editorial
    Hamas and other Islamist groups deliberately target Israeli civilians and celebrate when Jewish children die. Israel, responding in self-defense, seeks to minimize civilian casualties and grieves when Arab children get caught in the crossfire. There is no mystery to this asymmetry. Israel is a Western-style liberal democracy; Hamas is a fundamentalist, Iranian-backed Islamist group. We are in this mess because the national priority of Hamas, as always, is to hurt Jews rather than help Palestinians. (Ottawa Citizen-Canada)

  • Self-Defense - Editorial
    Israel is acting in self-defense, as any country in its position would. If Gaza had not served as a launching pad for terrorism, then Israel would not have struck at the source. (Richmond Times-Dispatch)

  • Poor Hamas? No! - Editorial
    Hamas brought its woes upon itself. Now it’s paying the price. (Pittsburgh Tribune-Review)

  • U.S. Should Support Israelis in Campaign Against Hamas - Editorial
    As Israel continues to respond to rocket attacks launched from Hamas-controlled Gaza, we offer some unsolicited advice to a fellow democracy and ally: Go all in. Finish the job. (The Oklahoman)
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